After his stint as a streamer on 'La Sustancia', which he described as a very enriching experience, Gareca is now ready to return to the pitch, whether for a club or a national team. 'El Flaco' spoke with Flashscore about his time with the Peruvian national team and everything he considers key to the development of Peruvian football.
Q: In '85 you scored the 2-2 goal that qualified Argentina against Peru. More than 40 years later, how do you remember that exact moment?
A: "That match was very traumatic, very tough, because Peru had a great team and we were losing 2-1 for Mexico '86, with a very tense atmosphere in the stadium.
"Burruchaga, from midfield, crossed the ball into the box - we were all-out attacking, you know. Passarella controlled it on his chest and crossed it with his right. Acasuzo was Peru's goalkeeper, he got his fingertips to it and the ball hit the post and rolled along the line. Then I rushed in and pushed it in.
"It was very traumatic because it was the 2-2 and that draw gave us the chance to qualify for Mexico '86, that's how the whole play unfolded."
You played under Menotti and Bilardo, two almost opposite football philosophies. If you had to pick one lesson from each to explain how you coach today, what would it be?
"They're quite different, though similar in some ways. They differ in how they communicate, but both liked good football, playing well, you know. The thing is, one is more obsessive about details than the other; for example, Bilardo could repeat a play countless times until it came out right.
"Menotti emphasised the player's confidence. He was more about communicating, talking, persuading with words; and Bilardo was very hands-on on the pitch, leaving nothing to chance: sometimes we'd repeat a corner 30 times until it worked. Menotti too, but he was more persuasive through communication and convincing the player.
"They were both very important coaches, though I was more influenced by Bilardo because I was with him from the start of the Mexico '86 qualifiers to the end; with Menotti it was a short time during the Spain '82 era, when I wasn't doing well in my career, but he still gave me the chance and I really enjoyed being with him."
You had a good spell at Universitario. If you had to pick one player from that time, who would it be and why?
"Dony Neyra. He was a guy who started as a right-back, a defender. I saw he had a great pass and shot, a great vision of the game; so, when you have a player with such vision and shooting ability, like he had, I moved him further forward, into an attacking role.
"Just as Mayer Candelo got injured, Dony took his chance. He started playing in that position and became a great provider for Hurtado and Malingas, you know, and also scored a couple of important goals, so we kept him there. You could say he was a key player for Universitario in that era."
Cienciano is back in the Sudamericana quarter-finals, 23 years after that historic title. How do you feel when you see a team from the provinces competing like that internationally?
"Not only are Cienciano strong at home, they also get points away; they don't just use the altitude, they know how to handle it, and away from home they've become a tough team, you know.
"That makes you think it's not just the coach doing things right, but he's also got the best out of players like Hohberg, whom I know and called up myself, and now he's having a brilliant spell as the team's playmaker. The coach has given him a free '10' role and allowed him to be the creative force for Cienciano.
"And on top of that, it's a team that plays compact, builds from the back, uses crosses well, etc. So, without a doubt, coach Melgarejo and his staff deserve a lot of credit. Plus, there's Christian Ruggeri, who's Oscar Ruggeri's nephew: I know how he works and I know he's a great tactical expert, so together they've made Cienciano a team that earns merit both home and away."
Time with the Peruvian national team
The start of the Russia 2018 campaign was tough: what didn't you change despite the pressure, and what did you have to fix?
"Having worked in Peru helped me a lot. I knew Universitario and was convinced of the quality and creativity of the Peruvian player. Then we had to break down several myths that were deeply ingrained, like that Peruvian players don't run or that they have to play in the best leagues or else they can't compete... We started breaking down those myths and proved that they could.
"We put cameras in every stadium. People said Peruvian players don't run, but they do - even in the toughest conditions: they run and play at over 3,000 metres altitude, play in the heat, run on artificial turf that burns your feet.
"That idea that they don't run was ingrained, but we showed it was all a lie, you just had to convince the players, tell and show them they could, and that's what happened. The players started to believe, and technically, they're very good. That had to be proven internationally."
During that period, from the seventh matchday, you left out established names like Pizarro, Zambrano, or Vargas, and the team took off, reaching the play-off and beating New Zealand 2-0 after 36 years without a World Cup. Of all the decisions you had to make in those seven years, was that the toughest call you made as Peru coach?
"It could be. It was a complicated situation, but we had the support of then FPF president Edwin Oviedo.
"That was key because we started the qualifiers badly and one day Oviedo invited me to lunch and told me I wasn't going to leave the national team, that he trusted the project and that even if we didn't qualify this time, I'd stay on for Qatar, that I should work calmly.
"Oviedo wanted to break the habit of constantly changing coaches, something Peru always did, and he wanted to give continuity, to give confidence, and I quickly got the message. So he gave me the freedom to make any decision, and the first thing we did was get to know the local players better and give some guys with spectacular quality a chance.
"So, to function as a team, we started bringing in several new guys and I had to leave out the established ones; but I had the president's support, even with the media pressure to get rid of me.
"With Paolo, we decided to keep him because we wanted him to be the figurehead, the captain, and we backed him. We had to make some very tough decisions and that was the hardest, but the local players responded and a new priority emerged, because we never doubted that the guys gave everything on the pitch."
"What we didn't like was everything beforehand, like when we arrived at camp and saw that the national team was a chance to meet up with family and friends. So the pre-match preparation wasn't what we wanted, we wanted total focus on the match, you know.
"We managed to get them to focus completely on the game and that was all that mattered at that moment. We gave families a space at the hotel to visit, to see them, for the kids to come; but once the first player arrived, we locked in and didn't leave until the two qualifiers were over.
"We were very focused and they understood. Then we brought in Farfan and Advincula, we added Carrillo and all of them, who later became key to qualifying. Claudio was there too, but every time he came he always had a problem or an injury. That made it impossible for him to train normally and we started betting on Raul Ruidiaz. We looked at everything and, in the end, we found a very solid group."
In Russia 2018 you lost narrowly to Denmark and France, and finished with a 2-0 win over Australia. If you had to pick one match from that World Cup to explain the whole process to someone, which would you choose?
"I think in all three matches we never gave up playing our game and now that you ask, we didn't deserve to lose to Denmark, because we had lots of chances. Against France we played well, but France at times outplayed us, just like Denmark, though it was back and forth because we controlled most of the match.
"At no point did we stop playing, we always tried to play on equal terms, even against France, who were world champions. Australia was tough, but we ended up winning.
"I think you could say it was a bit contradictory, but even though we didn't get past the group stage, we left a good impression; in terms of attitude, commitment, the way we played, and you could see Peru's style: the team had an identity and that's why the fans supported us all the way. I still feel we could have done more, but we left a good image."
What were your feelings during your second spell with the national team, being runners-up at the 2019 Copa America but losing in the 2022 World Cup play-off?
"It's important for people to know that Peru was around 60th in the world ranking. When you're that far from the top, you can't really compete. When you face a powerhouse, you might win or play well, but overall it's very hard to get a positive result.
"What we achieved in 2017 was to be among the top 10 teams in the world, and for Qatar we kept that up. Peru was always among the top 20 in the FIFA ranking. If you're in the top 10 you can achieve anything, and if you're in the top 20 you're potentially competitive.
"We managed to maintain a level that allowed us to compete with France, who were world champions; then we beat Croatia, who were World Cup runners-up; we beat Brazil, played well against Argentina too...
"When you put yourself in that kind of environment, you're at a super high level and you can compete with any team, so we reached that level and became a very competitive national team."
You coached more matches than any other manager in Peru's history. If you had to sum up your football philosophy in one non-negotiable idea, what would it be? And what advice would you give to Mano Menezes?
"We had a very clear style, recognised by both the international and local press, and overall we had support. Then there was another part of the media that, well, was hard to convince because, I don't know... it was like they were against me traveling abroad, for example, to watch the guys playing outside Peru, they were against certain things they thought should be done differently.
"The players thought the national team should give everyone a chance and I didn't give everyone a chance, we gave it to those we thought had a real shot at being in the team, because even if they played great, they had to meet important requirements like being in top physical and technical condition, because where we were going to compete were top leagues and the demands were higher.
"We had our critics, who unfortunately didn't trust that much even though there were results, but they recognised how Peru played, respecting its historic style. What we tried to do was respect the way Peruvians like to play; not such a vertical game, what interested me was to bring out the creativity of the Peruvian player.
"And if you ask me what I'd say to Menezes, who is undoubtedly a highly respected coach, he'll know what he has to do. I think what I focused on at the time was trying to highlight the creativity of the Peruvian player. I think that's important because Peruvian players have that trait and making sure it's respected is important, but Mano has to live his own experience."
An uncertain future
You've already coached Peru and Chile. You've also been linked with Paraguay, Ecuador, and even Bahrain. Are you interested in coaching another national team or do you prefer a club?
"I'm open to everything, if I have to coach a club I will, it's not about that. Even though times are different, I have a very large staff."
Coach, what everyone wants to know: your contract with 'La Sustancia' kept you tied up until the end of the 2026 World Cup. Because of that clause you turned down offers like Melgar, among others... Which teams have you thought about for your return to the pitch?
"After La Sustancia, once the show ended, I haven't had any concrete offers, unlike during my time on the show. I had already made that commitment, which I appreciate and was very productive and helped me grow. It was a very important challenge.
"But right now, nothing concrete. During that time Melgar contacted me, and so did the president of Talleres de Cordoba, but at that moment I was doing an interview with Valdano in Madrid for La Sustancia."
Of all the possible options, Independiente de Avellaneda is special: that's where you ended your playing career. How do you see that possibility and what would it mean for you to return to that club?
"Well, right now they're having political elections, choosing a president is very complicated. Gustavo Quinteros left and they've gone with Jadson Viera Castro, a Brazilian guy who became a Uruguayan citizen, and he's under contract until December.
"Independiente is a club I care about because that's where I ended my playing career and it's always a dream, but now there's a new coach, we'll have to see how he does. Coaches are always dependent on results, we never know where we'll end up coaching, because sometimes you think one thing and something else happens."