Good morning, Janek, or rather Buenos dias, since we're in Spain. Pamplona, a beautiful place. Do you even remember your first day in Spain? What surprised you most when you arrived?
"Good morning. My first day? I don't remember it exactly, but I do recall my first match, which happened to be at Barcelona's stadium. We lost 4-0. But from what people later explained to me, I apparently made a pretty good impression, despite the heavy defeat."
What was the hardest part at the beginning? The language, the mentality, finding your way in a new country? I spoke with your teammates, and everyone says you fit right in, as if you didn’t feel any change at all.
"I think the language was the biggest challenge. Language is a key part of adapting to a new environment.
At first, I had the help of a translator. Later, there were quite a few priests doing their doctorates at the University of Navarra, so I could speak Polish with them. I even signed up for classes at an academy to learn Spanish, together with Ashley Grimes from Ireland, who joined the club at the same time, but that lasted only three months.
"After that, we thought we spoke well enough, and a situation in a bar confirmed it. We were chatting, and someone nearby asked 'What language are you speaking?' We replied, 'What do you mean? Spanish, of course!' (laughs).
"We managed from the very start. Language was probably the toughest part, though we picked it up quickly. As for the locker room and the club, I arrived at 27. You could say I’d seen a lot by then, so it wasn’t a huge surprise or shock for me."
Watch the full interview with Jan Urban:
Football-wise, for sure, but language and learning the culture are very important. Looking back, did moving here change you in any way? How do you see it now?
"Every new environment leaves its mark on a person. The people here are very open and cheerful, approaching life with a sense of calm rather than just being laid-back. They don’t exaggerate problems. In a way, you unconsciously become more like them when you’re surrounded by that atmosphere.
"My time in Spain definitely influenced me, which became clear when I returned to Poland in 2007 to work for Legia Warszawa. People often told me I was different, that I approached things in a unique way, even though I didn’t notice it myself. For me, it felt normal, but others saw it differently. So, yes, my years in Spain definitely left a mark."
Did you quickly adapt from Polish to Spanish cuisine?
"For me, it wasn’t difficult at all - the food here is fantastic and very diverse. Of course, I haven’t forgotten Polish cuisine, and it’s easy to find ingredients to make Polish dishes whenever I feel like it."
Hat-trick at the Bernabeu and beating Stuttgart
Since we’re talking about food, today (the interview was conducted on December 30th) marks 35 years since you cooked up a hat-trick at Estadio Santiago Bernabeu – a 4-0 win for Osasuna. How do you remember that match and those goals?
"First of all, it was a great season for Osasuna. They finished fourth, which I think has only happened twice in the club’s history, and we proved our quality against a team like Real Madrid, who hadn’t lost at home that season. Looking back, I think those goals defined me as a player.
"I scored the first with a header, and I’ve always been known for my heading ability. The second was a long-range shot - I was good with both feet and had a powerful strike from distance. The third was a technical finish, controlling the ball and placing it past the keeper at the far post. Plus, I added an assist, showing I had a good sense of the game. That’s how I see it.
"Was it something extraordinary? Yes, but I only realised that after my career ended. When you’re playing, it’s just your job, especially as a striker. In Poland, I was always a left midfielder, even for the national team, but here, coach Pedro María Zabalza decided I’d play up front with Cuco Ziganda. I adapted well and played as a striker the whole time.
"It went well, but only years later do you think, "Wow, not many people have scored a hat-trick here." It was a special moment in my career, and for the club too - it’s a historic event that will always be remembered by Osasuna fans and by me."
And by Polish fans, since no other Polish player has scored a hat-trick against Real Madrid in the league.
"Someone told me that if it happened today, the media coverage would be insane. Even back then, it felt crazy - I gave tons of interviews to TV, newspapers, and so on. It was incredible, but that’s how the media works: you have to get the story out fast."
Was that the moment when all of Spanish football took notice, and when Barcelona’s interest began? We know there was interest. Johan Cruyff was a fan of your talent. What happened that it didn’t work out?
"I can’t confirm that Barcelona actually spoke with Osasuna, because no one told me that directly. But the press wrote about it. We all know how it goes: you’re on the radar, but there are lots of players in that position.
"Even if I was on Barcelona’s list, it means they valued me."
And Johan Cruyff too. That’s worth highlighting.
Yes, Johan Cruyff, of course. He was my idol as a kid. Suddenly, Barcelona are interested, and Cruyff is the coach - that would have been amazing.
"It’s great when a club like Barcelona is interested in you. But those were different times. I didn’t have an agent; the person who brought me here was actually involved in handball. He brought Bogdan Wenta here. Maybe he found out by chance or had contacts at Osasuna, who were looking for someone from Poland. It happened to be me, and that’s how it worked out.
"If I’d had an agent, maybe things would have turned out differently, because I was in great form after that hat-trick. After that season, we played in European competitions. Osasuna did well there too - we only lost to Ajax, who won the UEFA Cup that year.
"Before that, we played a very strong Stuttgart, drew 0-0 at home. They thought beating Osasuna at their place would be a formality, but we won 3-2 with two goals and an assist from me. I remember six or seven German clubs were interested in me after that."
Including Stuttgart, right?
"Yes, because they saw how I played and knew my contract was ending."
A disappointing international career
You played 57 matches for the national team. Seven goals, World Cup appearances. Do you feel any regret about your time with the national team? Because when you were in your prime at Osasuna, scoring lots of goals and making headlines in Spain, you didn’t get many call-ups, right?
"That’s when I stopped playing for the national team (laughs), journalists often ask about that. How did I end my international career at 29?"
Exactly.
"That’s how it was. But you know what? Those were the times. Often, when results weren’t coming, there was a changing of the guard. Remember after Barcelona? The Olympic team won silver in 1992, and immediately, there was talk of 'changing the sign, moving forward'. It was like that.
"After Mexico in 1986, the successes dried up, so people looked for ways to get Poland winning again. One idea was that the older players weren’t contributing enough, couldn’t achieve success, so they were replaced.
"But it showed that maybe it should have been done differently, because the new players didn’t bring success either."
Today, I can’t imagine a striker from Osasuna scoring 16-17 goals in a season not playing for Poland. That would be unthinkable. But I guess those were different times.
"Yes, it was different then. A 30-year-old player was seen as nearing the end of his career. Today, it’s totally different.
"As for regrets? I think we could have achieved more. Of course, you can’t compare today’s national team situation one-to-one with back then. The qualification format and the way to advance were completely different. For example, not only did we not qualify for the European Championships, but also medalists from Germany in 1974 and Spain in 1982 didn’t play. Why? Because it was very hard to qualify. Only seven teams plus the hosts made it - eight teams total. You can imagine how strong those teams were.
"In one qualifying campaign, we were close, playing against Turkey, Ireland, and England. If we’d won our last two home games, we’d have qualified. We drew them, though, and for about 20 minutes in the last match, we were actually in the finals - Turkey were beating Ireland, we were beating England, but it ended in a draw and we didn’t qualify.
"It was similar in club competitions. Today, it’s much easier to get into tournaments than back when only national champions played in the Champions League. Even though we won the league with Gornik year after year, we didn’t always play in European cups, where you could gain valuable experience. If you got a weaker opponent in the first round, you’d go further, but if not, we’d face Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or Anderlecht. They’d knock us out, and we’d only get experience from two matches. Today, it’s a whole different story."
From striker to defender to coach
Janek, one more thing - probably not many people know this. In 1995, you signed a six-month contract with Real Valladolid and played as a central defender. How did that happen, and how did you feel in that role? Because now someone might say you were a striker there, scoring goals. But you were also a defender.
"As you said, I was 'also' a defender. I mostly played up front. But there came a time when injuries hit the defence, and the coach had a tough decision to make. He went with experience. We talked about it. Why not? Of course, I could give it a try.
"My first match was against Deportivo La Coruna. The great Deportivo: Bebeto, Donato. I’m not sure if Rivaldo was still there or had already left, but it was an amazing team. 0-0. For a centre-back and goalkeeper, that’s a great result, so I kept playing - four matches in total. It ended, fittingly, with Barcelona; how it started, it finished. We went to Barcelona and lost 4-0.
"But overall, I enjoyed playing in that position. I used my experience as a striker - I knew how forwards moved, so I could anticipate their actions. But once the injured defenders returned, my stint as a centre-back ended."
Was the transition from professional player to coach natural for you? Did finishing your playing career and understanding players help you in any way?
"Was it easy? Hard to say. I didn’t know if I wanted to be a coach, but I gave it a try. I started even before I finished playing, coaching young boys in the afternoons - eight and ten-year-olds playing five-a-side with handball goals.
"After retiring, I got an offer to work with Osasuna’s youth teams. I wasn’t sure, but I accepted to see if it was something I wanted to pursue in football.
"I didn’t have big ambitions. I started as assistant coach for the second junior team, so I didn’t have to make all the decisions right away. Then I became head coach of the junior team, and we won the Spanish championship with the oldest juniors - the only national title for Osasuna’s youth. That’s when I really got hooked on coaching. When you’re the head coach, you make the decisions, and success draws you in.
"That led to the next step, Osasuna’s second team. By then, I knew: yes, I want to be a coach. Some players, as their careers wind down, pay close attention to how the team works, what the coach does, and know they want to coach. That wasn’t the case for me, but I think I prepared well for the job by not having big ambitions right away and working my way up through all the youth levels.
"It’s one thing to tell a professional player he’s not in your plans and needs to find a new club, and another to say that to a young boy. He and his family hope he’ll climb the ranks at Osasuna, and suddenly you have to tell him, "Sorry, you have to leave." That’s much harder than in professional football. That’s why it’s called professional. You have to make decisions for the good of the team and club at any moment. With youth, it’s different—you’re extinguishing their hopes and dreams."
You’ve managed locker rooms in Spain and Poland. Is there a big difference for you as a coach?
"I didn’t see much difference in that regard. I think it was 2007 when I came to Poland- but it was Legia Warszawa, very good players, and so on - awareness in Poland was changing quickly. Players started to focus on making the most of their careers. It looked good then and still does in Polish locker rooms.
"In terms of football, there were differences. In Poland, there was a huge emphasis on physical preparation - it was extremely important. I was a bit different in that I wanted to focus on technique, having players play with the ball and make the game enjoyable to watch. It’s not easy, but I believe a player who’s comfortable with the ball and has frequent touches during a match develops more than just fighting, tackling, sliding, and so on.
"That was a big difference, but it’s changing. Today, many Polish teams play attractive, technical football."
Working with top players
Speaking of the locker room, was there a player with great talent who was hard for you to reach?
"There were definitely players who, looking back, could have achieved more. We promoted quite a few at Legia Warszawa - Borysiuk, Furman, Rybus, and others. I think they could have done a bit more, though they still had good careers.
"Sometimes you bet on someone else, not because of the player himself. He wants it, but maybe can’t make the next step to the highest level. It’s not really his fault, but as a coach, you see he has certain qualities, but reaches a point where he can’t give more. But someone who had all the tools and then disappeared completely? I don’t recall such cases.
"On the other hand, I had a reputation in Poland for being able to introduce young players and give them a chance. That was confirmed at many clubs. Where does it come from? I think it’s because of how I prepared for coaching. Going through all the youth groups at Osasuna, I experienced firsthand how young players develop.
"Some progress slowly, others make a big leap and start playing at a high level, and some just can’t make that jump and stop. Not everyone has to play in the top leagues -otherwise, there wouldn’t be second or third divisions. Being well-prepared as a coach helped me a lot."
Marcelo, the former Real Madrid player, recently said he couldn’t be a coach because he doesn’t understand tactics at all. Have you encountered players who don’t understand what the coach is saying and struggle to adapt to a certain role?
"I think they do understand. When you talk to them, explain, move pieces on the board, draw, show video examples, and work on things in training, I think they get it. That’s a calm time, when you can talk freely or fix things in training.
"What makes it seem like a player doesn’t understand is, in my opinion, the emotions that come with every competitive match. Sometimes there are 10, sometimes 30 or 50 thousand fans. The responsibility for the result, for the match, all that means everyone reacts differently under stress. You make bad decisions, behave differently in certain situations.
"Some players seize their chance immediately, others need a few games to get used to the whole environment. The ones who can take advantage from the start have a better chance of making a career. Those who need more games also need some luck - the coach has to be able to keep you on the pitch for a few matches, hoping you’ll improve. That’s hard today, because one or two mistakes can affect the whole team.
"It’s not just about the coach trusting the player. You give him a chance, but you also have to consider the rest of the team’s opinion - they see that we’re losing points because of this player. These are always decisions: one more match or is it enough for now? Another chance later, or maybe a loan to another team, where there’s less pressure or a lower level?"
Wrapping up the Osasuna chapter: you coached many players, especially when you took over the first team. Nacho Monreal, Raul Garcia, Alex Berenguer, and Mikel Merino. He made his first-team debut for Osasuna under you at 19. Did you already know he’d be playing in the Premier League and for Spain? Did he have that special something only great players have?
"It’s easy to say now, 'Of course, I knew it', but really, he was a very technically skilled player who read the game well and was excellent in the air. His biggest issue was speed. That was the question: would he overcome it, or would it hold him back from reaching the top?
"But there are many examples - like (Sergio) Busquets. He wasn’t fast, but he was quick mentally, and Mikel Merino was the same. His vision and decision-making on the pitch allowed him to have the career he’s had. In youth teams, he stood out for those qualities.
"The only question was how he’d cope with the speed of the game, but he managed that very well. And then... that left foot. Left-footed players are less common, and they’re often more enjoyable to watch. That was true for him too.
"I’m surprised he’s gone so far. Playing professionally in Spain? Sure, no problem. Many Osasuna academy graduates have done that. But Mikel reached the very top, not just in Europe but worldwide."